long  ID:- 72664   Date:- 07/04/2010 08:03      Send PM    reply:- 14 

i have spent the last 18months approx. chasing after ministers/td's the main thing i have been told is that they want to take the money out of ica. surely by having to pay 5/7k to new agency this is just moving the banker closer to home (the money won't be leaving ireland).

also does anybody know how long this agency has been in the pipeline. i myself would imagine a couple of years. so i would feel that we have been dragged along by more than just ba

long

chinviet  ID:- 74517   Date:- 06/04/2010 23:45      Send PM    reply:- 13 

The tax-payer is already funding a CEO who no longer has a job to do. Why is that? 

I personally do not see the necessity for a mediation agency to co-ordinate adoptions in the future. Well and good for people who would like to use an agency but will we have an option? We did not with Vietnam and look how that ended up. ICA is already out of reach for many because of costs...having to pay between €5k and €7k will make it impossible for many more, especially in these straitened times. 

As for social worker post-placement work, do away with it!! There is no need for these to be done by SW's and no legal requirement from any sending country, to my knowledge, that they be done by SW's. After all, we the parents, know our children better than any SW.
Imagine how much faster the HSE could get through waiting lists if they weren't wasting time on PPR's!

TBFrank  ID:- 56352   Date:- 06/04/2010 21:41      Send PM    reply:- 12 

To clarify - I don't think any fees should end up going to the country from which the child is being adopted. They should however cover domestic admin costs of the mediation agency,e.g. the 2K portion that HH could account for. They probably should also cover the cost of SW post adoption work - maybe it's not fair at this time that taxpayers should be asked to foot that. 5K does sound high though. If there were to be any HA donations - maybe they should be routed to non-Hague countries to be used to get them to a Hague-compliant status (don't ask me how or who would monitor that .. UN anyone?). There definitely should not be mandatory donations to the country of origin - that practice is already beginning to sound as wrong as tax breaks for property speculation, or politicians memoirs.

vietmom  ID:- 23433   Date:- 06/04/2010 19:09      Send PM    reply:- 11 

Agreed Chinviet it's such a pity for the kids involved isn't it? They will be growing up in a wealthy country and thankfully will never know what it is like not to have money for food, I just hope we will not let them down as parents and be able to explain all this to them in the future regardless of their country of origin

chinviet  ID:- 74517   Date:- 06/04/2010 19:04      Send PM    reply:- 10 

Hi vietmom. Not all countries adopting from Ethiopia are as lucky as we are where fees are concerned. We are just privileged imo in that the orphanages we have been adopting from are opposed to financial charges although there has been pressure incountry recently on them to pay fees in respect of paperwork for children going for adoption. This pressure has come from more than one source and in at least one case, there is a feeling that the refusal to pay has led to the orphanage in question receiving fewer babies for adoption. It is a sad fact of life but money definitely talks everywhere but no louder, I am sure, than in the third world.

vietmom  ID:- 23433   Date:- 06/04/2010 18:49      Send PM    reply:- 9 

Hi all

I did say on another thread that I was afraid these mounting fees would mean many couples could no longer adopt and it is still something I think will happen. Outside the agency fee I can't see assessments being done by a seperate agency for free!!! 
I agree money and adoption dont sit well together and never will. I was filling my friend in recently and spoke about fees. As an adult adoptee she really was upset that any money was involved. She explained in her usual blunt way how it made her feel to think that money was involved in adoption and how would we explain to our children why money was involved in the first place. 
Yet there is no way in this day and age the gov are going arrange adoptions for free, I dont know if any country does.
I think the balance is to keep fees to a minimum. I do think 5k is too high and I would like to know who sets the fee and who monitors it. I think things like Humanitarian aid should be a voluntary contribution of no set amount and only if the couple want to make the donation, it should not be obligatory. I think all fees should be set for a min of 5 years so that couples do not face the yearly increases they had with Vn. It would be good if Leanbh work with countries where there is little or no fee ie Ethiopia thus limiting the costs for couples here and the chances of corruption

chinviet  ID:- 74517   Date:- 06/04/2010 18:06      Send PM    reply:- 7 

TBFrank, wherever money is payable, there is always a risk that it will be a motivating factor. I think that is just a sad fact of life. 

I don't see why we should have to pay any fees at all and the amount suggested is a colossal amount. Is it just another case of the government abdicating its responsibilities? 

I am not so sure that ratifying Hague is going to be all it's cracked up to be...Ethiopia has not ratified Hague and Irish adoptions from there could not be more ethical...yet, they are going to cease shortly. Seems to me that our government has it all wrong!!!

chinviet  ID:- 74517   Date:- 06/04/2010 17:53      Send PM    reply:- 6 

Hi long. I share your feelings. i have huge objections to the payment of fees in respect of adoption and as far as I can see, the government is just trying to privatize this area as a means of making further cut-backs. This is going to put adoption beyond reach for even more people, in my opinion.

TBFrank  ID:- 56352   Date:- 06/04/2010 17:51      Send PM    reply:- 5 

The money was an issue when it became a motivating factor for adoptable babies fitting the precise requirements of PAPs to be made available. Hopefully we'll do due diligence this time to ensure everything is accounted for and money ends up paying only for justifiable administration expenses. With the IAA track record on the Vietnam saga, ratification of the Hague is going to be a very important buffer to have in place.

vietmom  ID:- 23433   Date:- 06/04/2010 17:46      Send PM    reply:- 4 

Hi Long
I get your point but this was always going to happen with Mediation Agencies. The fees are to cover everything salaries, running costs etc etc. Lets face it CEOs earn high salaries and that is not a criticism it is a fact. HH would have been doing the same.
I wonder does anyone know if you will be able to adopt from one of the countries that Leanbh will be dealing without having to use them.

chinviet  ID:- 74517   Date:- 06/04/2010 17:44      Send PM    reply:- 3 

Thanks vietmom. I set up the original thread in good faith as I really want to get some information on how things are going to shape up in the future in the area of ICA. It is a pity it went off topic and I accept that I am in part responsible for that but I reacted instinctively when I saw someone's integrity being unfairly called into question. 

long  ID:- 72664   Date:- 06/04/2010 17:28      Send PM    reply:- 2 

Hi All

how can it now be ok for an agency to charge 5/7K when it is money in ica that got us to this point. is it just a case that maybe the gov. are upset that this money has been leaving the country and not going into their funds. will they want to charge people who transfer from hh to this agency 5/7K

long

vietmom  ID:- 23433   Date:- 06/04/2010 17:14      Send PM    reply:- 1 

Hi Chinviet

Leanbh is a Mediation Agency. It will be up and running after the Adoption Bill goes through. It has to be not for profit but it will have to cover all it's own costs ie salaries etc. The fee according to the new CEO Shane Downer will be between 5k and 7k. The other Mediation Agency could not charge a fee, under the exsisting law. They were funded by the AB. This ammounted to 1.6 million in the first three. years. Leanbh are looking at a number of countries. Among them are Kenya, South Korea, South Africa, Taiwan, Cambodia and possibly Vietnam in the future. To the best of my knowledge (I am not an IAA member) Shane Downer has stepped down from his position as Chairman of the IAA to take up his new position.
A seperate agency is to be set up to deal with assessments, it is not clear yet if this will be free of charge or whether there will be a fee as well.