Most Australians will remember my guest as that ballsy biker lawyer from the movie 'Shame' or the tough-minded passionate psychologist from 'Corelli', she's one of Australia's best actresses, but the last five years of her life have not been dominated by a need for the world's attention. Shelving her acting plans for other ambitions, she's been living what she calls a dream life as Hugh Jackman's wife and Oscar's mum and a director. Now she's ready to step back into the limelight. Ladies and gentlemen, Deborra-Lee Furness.
Andrew Denton: Welcome, and welcome back to Australia.
Deborra-Lee Furness: It is thrilling to be here.
Andrew Denton: You've only been back for a few days.
Deborra-Lee Furness: I got back on Thursday and the first thing I said was I feel like there’s more mega pixels here. You get off the plane and there’s, it’s so crisp and clear, like you’ve been in like Los Angeles it’s all smoggy and Sydney and Melbourne just seem so bright and clear and sunny skies.
Andrew Denton: It was, I was going to ask you are there smells about Australia you miss, little idiosyncrasies?
Deborra-Lee Furness: All those little subtleties and I was driving into Sydney tonight and like you just see the parks and things and it takes you, oh I did that when I was 16 and it brings back all the memories.
Andrew Denton: What did you do in a park when you were 16?
Deborra-Lee Furness: I’m not, I’m not sharing.
Andrew Denton: Well that’s a good start to the interview. Let’s talk about one of your favourite subjects, your little boy Oscar who’s three. Now you say you’ve turned into a gushing mum, come on gush.
Deborra-Lee Furness: I know I used to see all these people, they’d always be getting out the photos and then showing me they’re cute, and I mean yeah, yeah he’s cute. And you sort of, and now I’m one of those people on a plane, perfect strangers and say this is my three year old, he’s a genius. And he’s this extraordinary little boy who is teaching me, I’ve learned so much about bugs, and astronomy
Andrew Denton: He doesn’t have bugs does he?
Deborra-Lee Furness: He’s just so curious and I have to come up with the answers. So I am like constantly learning with his enthusiasm and he’s got a world map, he can literally name every single country practically.
Andrew Denton: Wow, he’s ahead of George Bush.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah, yeah I’m not going to say anything.
Andrew Denton: You were going to call him Balthazar, is that right?
Deborra-Lee Furness: I was, oh there were many names but Hugh hated Balthazar, everyone hated Balthazar.
Andrew Denton: Because the thing is all kid’s names have to be shortened really don’t they?
Deborra-Lee Furness: And I liked the Zar, Zar Jackman, but Hugh thought he’d just get beat up at school if he had name like Balthazar, we didn’t go there.
Andrew Denton: Well you could have called him Beelzebub, it could have been worse. He’s Oscar, if he has a sibling will he or she be Bafta, is it kind of an award family?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Well we were talking about a baby sister and Oscar decided she was going to be called Statten Island. So you know, we don’t know.
Andrew Denton: And then obviously Hoboken and Jersey and there you go.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Exactly, New Jersey.
Andrew Denton: Oscar’s adopted and you were there at his birth, what’s your relationship with his birth mum?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Well, we broke all the rules. There, there’s a way of going about it and we did it in Los Angeles and the birth mother comes from, she was from Iowa, and she comes to Los Angeles about two weeks before the baby’s expected and you put them up in a hotel and you, you have you know obviously see them, but you keep it at a distance. Well she was a young girl from Iowa and she was scared of being in Los Angeles, so she stayed with us, with her 14 month old. So we were like this crazy family, we’d be going, my mother was there and we were all there, so. We, we had her with us. And I sort of, you know there are rules but every situation is unique, and here is this woman going to give me the greatest gift of my life and I want to look after her. And so you know we were told not to do certain things but for us it worked. Hugh and I were there in the room when he was being born, the doctor said you know here he comes and I’m like with the camera taking photos, and there was like tears and photos and Hugh cut the cord and he was put straight into my arms, and I, I had kept in touch with the birth mother, which again is not necessarily the way it is, but I think people don’t stay in touch because of fear. And I had nothing to be scared of. What, there’s no fear, he’s my son, and so I, I you know I don’t call her every week, I mean but once a year I’ll sort of be in touch and see how she’s doing and this is a young girl who at 22 this was her fourth baby.
Andrew Denton: The first time you bring a baby home is an amazing moment. What was that like for you guys?
Deborra-Lee Furness: It was extraordinary and it was like I don’t drink that much and I started drinking wine at night. At dinner time Hugh said would you like some wine, yes please. So it, it’s you have to be a grown up. It’s like okay, you’re the grown up. You’re responsible for this little being. And, and you know it was like it was hilarious. Cause Hugh and I all of a sudden you know, two sort of wild kids, and all of a sudden he turned into his father and I turned into my mother and we both said no you do it this way, not it’s like this. And we said, trying to be prefects and responsible and it was, it was frightening but amazing how it just comes. It’s just naturally and you know you just understand it. It was like, it’s no, and adopting I’d have to say for anyone out there who is interested in doing this, it is so great, it’s no different. I haven’t had my own child but I can’t imagine it’s any different, these little beings come in and you’re there to be a caretaker of this little person.
Andrew Denton: Have you ever encountered an attitude that you are somehow less a mum because Oscar’s adopted?
Deborra-Lee Furness: No, but it’s interesting in the park sometimes you know because he’s mixed race, oh are you his mum, I go yeah, and they’ll, and the mother was oh don’t say anything, to the child that’s asking. And then the mother will say, "Oh is he adopted?" And you know is he adopted? I go yeah he’s adopted, you know it’s like, it’s like it’s this ooh, ooh and I mean I’ve spoken to Oscar about it, and we talk about adopted. The way it came up it was actually rather scary. He was like two and we were watching on the computer 'Stuart Little' the mouse.
Andrew Denton: Yes.
Deborra-Lee Furness: And he was talking about being adopted and Oscar just comes out cause he copies everything and he said am I adopted? And I went ooh, I wasn’t ready for that chat yet. And I’m going yeah you are.
Andrew Denton: So hey he’s seen “Stuart Little” he obviously didn’t think he came from mice. How did you explain it to him?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Oh there was no explanation. To him it’s just a word. Am I adopted? Yeah, it means nothing to him. But now he knows, you know he knows he has a birth mother and at a party he said are you my birth mother, he just goes up and asks people really. So
Andrew Denton: Must flip guests out a little bit.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah exactly!
Andrew Denton: Will he meet his birth mum?
Deborra-Lee Furness: If if he wants to.
Andrew Denton: The reason Oscar was adopted is because you had a couple of miscarriages beforehand.
Deborra-Lee Furness: We did.
Andrew Denton: How did that affect you?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Well it’s not real happy thing. It’s like this, we had some miscarriages and we tried, we did the IVF and we were always going to, we wanted to have a child and adopt a child. So we always had that plan anyway. So it just sort of changed the plans around. And then you know we were upset obviously when we didn’t get pregnant and we had the miscarriages. And then when we went to, oh well we’ll just adopt first, it was like what were we worried about, and it was it just happened so it was no big deal. But I, I didn’t, there must be something in the water, I just know that lately I, I come across so many women, cause I’ve been through it, they say talk to me about it. So many women having trouble you know getting pregnant.
Andrew Denton: Do you think you’ll adopt another child?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Um, maybe.
Andrew Denton: Yeah.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah. Maybe, if it’s meant to be.
Andrew Denton: And what would make it meant to be?
Deborra-Lee Furness: We’ll know, we’ll just know.
Andrew Denton: And how will you know?
Deborra-Lee Furness: I’m a message kid, I wait for the messages.
Andrew Denton: Yeah?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah. I had an extraordinary message and I don’t tell everyone this but I feel like cause you’re such a good interviewer I feel like I'm telling this to friends.
Andrew Denton: We're all friends.
Deborra-Lee Furness: No, when Oscar was being born, cause the way it happens you get calls from the birth mothers and you know I was concerned that the right child would come to us and that we would be the right parents for the right child. And I kept saying to Hugh when we were in discussions early on. I said I havn't got a message yet, I’m waiting for a message. And I was on a flight from Los Angeles to Toronto where Hugh was shooting X-Men 1, I think it was, and I was sitting on this flight and I looked out the window and there was this incredible electric storm outside the window and it was so beautiful, I was just staring at it and I said to the guy sitting next to me, “Wow, look at that, it’s amazing, where are we, and he said I think we’re somewhere over Iowa," And I, I knew that that was the birth mother I had been speaking to and I grabbed the stewardess and I said do you know where we are and she said oh come up here and took me up to the pilot’s cabin it was before September 11, and went in there and I said where are we? And he said, see down there, there’s Cedar Rapids, and tears started to roll down my face and I knew that was my message. And I loved it, it was like it wasn’t a subtle message, it was like, it’s me already, it’s like this huge electrical storm.
Andrew Denton: Yeah, flashes of lightning that’s a big message.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah and that was where he was conceived.
Andrew Denton: What a great story. When I first met you which was about 10 years ago, I came away with this memory of you and I’ve described you to other people as like a lion of a woman, a lion of a woman. Now you’re a really strong woman, where does that come from?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Well I suppose I, I’m the daughter of a single mum. I grew up with a single mum who I suppose in Australia at that time it was kind of male dominated, and here I was the daughter of, I just thought women were the strong force cause my mum was a you know a board director, she was a working woman and I just saw her sort of you know running the show. So I guess that’s where I, I saw that strength.
Andrew Denton: The reason you, your mum was a single mum, is your dad died when you were eight years old in a car accident.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Very young yeah.
Andrew Denton: And when you were in your 20's you had a bad car accident too. I’m not connecting the two, but you were out of action for nine months.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: That’s a long time and a big thing to happen in your life, what did that change in you?
Deborra-Lee Furness: It was interesting cause it was like right when I was just sort of back from drama school and I just had so many films lined up and there was a lot going on, and then bang. It was just out, I had a broken ankle, a compound fracture and I was had you know skin grafts and it was, it really set me back, and I think I’d always been this sort of like kid that sort of didn’t delve too far, everything was just hey and fun and it was the first time in my life that I had sort of a real reality check, and it just stopped me dead. I didn’t know if I was going to work again as an actress, and my face was crap and my head was aching, I looked like elephant woman, and the first job that I got, and that was probably my most favourite job which was 'Shame'. And I think that experience of me having to sit for nine months added to the depth of that character.
Andrew Denton: We have a clip of it here.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Oh my god. Big hair day.
Andrew Denton: This is the big hair days, but big performance, see this is Deborra-Lee Furness from the 1987 film 'Shame'. (Show Clip)
Andrew Denton: This is, this is a diversion but what I find disturbing about that scene is that you’re being dressed down by Jim Bacon from Bellbird.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Ha ha.
Andrew Denton: It kind of doesn’t square at all. You’ve actually played a lot of strong female roles, also 'Corelli'. Did you feel any pressure to live up to those roles or did other people expect you to live those roles?
Deborra-Lee Furness: It was interesting with 'Shame' because I toured all over America with it and I would go to, I was asked to speak at like the National Coalition of Women against sexual assault and all these different things, and they wanted me to be that character. I mean I’d show up in like fluffy white lace and sort of you know, I was an actress. And I,I saw them wanting, because the film had touched them so much and they wanted a saviour.
Andrew Denton: I want to talk about your heart. When you were younger you had a list of what you were looking for in a man, do you remember what was on that list?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Ha ha. I married him, ha ha.
Andrew Denton: Yeah? Because part of your, when you met Hugh, you had two rules, don’t date an actor, and don’t date anyone under 30.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Who told you that, that was my New Year’s resolution the year I did 'Corelli'.
Andrew Denton: Yeah, and you broke both those rules
Deborra-Lee Furness: No more, exactly and it was it was wrong of me because it was very narrow-minded of me.
Andrew Denton: Why did you have those rules?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Because I’d dated a lot of actors. Ha ha, but no I, that was my New Year’s Resolution and then I meet this man who was under 30 and was an actor but um was the most extraordinary man I’d ever met so it was wrong of me to put any little, you know boxes on anything that I would want to put anyone in a box.
Andrew Denton: Why was he the most extraordinary man you’d ever met?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Because I think well probably every woman out there says the same thing about their husband, I mean I, I believe you know.
Andrew Denton: No.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Stop it! She’ll be thrilled. I believe that we do have you know soul mates or partners in this life and when I met Hugh there was just a click and it wasn’t you know love at first sight, like the second I looked at him and it was just I knew, there was a knowingness and he sort of felt like he got me and it was, he was cute, but it wasn’t just about that, it was there was something that just gelled and I mean and I thought, I looked at him then and thought this man will be in my life as a friend, and then it developed into something else.
Andrew Denton: Well it did and I think a lot of people know the story that you were on the set of 'Corelli' and you were actually playing people who were falling in love and you fell in love. We have a clip here from 'Corelli', and watch the smoulder. (Show Clip)
Andrew Denton: Oooh smoulder, smoulder, smoulder.
Deborra-Lee Furness: It was the haircut that got me.
Andrew Denton: That’s right.
Deborra-Lee Furness: My mother met him and nearly died, tattoos, you know the bogun haircut.
Andrew Denton: Who is this man?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Really?
Andrew Denton: Was it because you were falling in love with someone who you were acting falling in love with, was that kind of exciting and sexy or was it a bit like a weird torture?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Downright exciting and sexy.
Andrew Denton: Yeah?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Ha ha, it was, it was well hey, falling in love under any circumstances is so exciting. And he, I have to say he was the most exciting actor I had ever worked with.
Andrew Denton: Yeah?
Deborra-Lee Furness: And it was his first job.
Andrew Denton: Cause he was pretty shy wasn’t he?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Ha ha. No.
Andrew Denton: Was he not? He wasn’t shy?
Deborra-Lee Furness: No.
Andrew Denton: Oh okay, so when you were on the set?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Oh, shy the two of us were very, yes, oh well yes, the two of us took a while to sort of declare our, our infatuation.
Andrew Denton: But when you were acting as lovers,I mean it must have just been the best time. You could have done the body language and the touching and the looks and it must have all been happening right?
Deborra-Lee Furness: What sort of show is this Andrew?
Andrew Denton: It’s a post-9:30 show, it’s quite all right.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Okay, okay. It was, it was it was sort of bizarre. The funniest thing I remember after we started dating, we were at the supermarket and the checkout chick, the lady was there and she looked up and she saw us and she goes I knew it was too good to be acting. Before we were out there it was, like sprung.
Andrew Denton: In fairness is Hugh raising the bar too high for other men because he seems...
Deborra-Lee Furness: I think so.
Andrew Denton: He seems a little...
Deborra-Lee Furness: He’s damned impressive I tell you.
Andrew Denton: He seems a little perfect to me. Please just tell me one little thing that he does wrong. Just one.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Okay, I’ll give you one. He may live in the, he lives in the same house, that’s the only thing handy about him. He’s not handy around the house.
Andrew Denton: Oh that’s so good to know.
Deborra-Lee Furness: I, I’m the one with the tool kit.
Andrew Denton: Okay well look I, speaking as a younger man in a relationship.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: Myself, can you confirm the widely held belief that younger men are the ultimate in sexual satisfaction, I mean?
Deborra-Lee Furness: I confirm that.
Andrew Denton: Good, thank you. I just wanted.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew Denton: You’ve actually made a pact have you not that you two won’t spend more than two weeks apart?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Mm, mm.
Andrew Denton: And that only one of you will work at a time. Have you been able to keep that?
Deborra-Lee Furness: He’s been really greedy on the work front so yeah we have kept it actually. We’ve never had more than two weeks apart.
Andrew Denton: Wow.
Deborra-Lee Furness: And I, I was just offered a film down here with Ray Lawrence, which it was going to be in two months away, and we’re like so tormented, should I do it, but he’s such a wonderful film maker and Hugh’s like yes you’ve got to do this and fortunately it’s been delayed so hopefully I can do it and Hugh can come and join me.
Andrew Denton: Yeah, is Hugh a very romantic guy?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah, very.
Andrew Denton: Yeah, in what way?
Deborra-Lee Furness: In what way? I’m not going into details.
Andrew Denton: No, no I don’t mean.
Deborra-Lee Furness: No, he’s very romantic as in he, he’s very present and he’s very generous and does all that romantic stuff of writing letters and...
Andrew Denton: He writes letters?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: Wow. Even when you’re together he writes letters?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yeah.
Andrew Denton: That’s fantastic. To you?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Yes. I think they’re addressed to me. I hope they were.
Andrew Denton: He, didn’t he design your engagement ring, is that right?
Deborra-Lee Furness: He did.
Andrew Denton: Tell me about that.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Well, he was very nervous because he didn’t have a clue about jewellery or diamonds and he just went in there and he said and then he said I don’t know what I’m doing so I’ll just tell you a bit about Deb and this poor jeweller he sat there for an hour and a half and bored him endlessly giving every nuance of my personality, but in the end the guy said yeah okay, here’s the ring, here's the diamond.
Andrew Denton: So he turned your personality into a ring.
Deborra-Lee Furness: A diamond ring.
Andrew Denton: What a fantastic thing. And it had a transcription in Sanskrit is that right?
Deborra-Lee Furness: On our wedding bands, we have Sanskrit.
Andrew Denton: Yeah. And what’s that?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Sanskrit is was the first language.
Andrew Denton: Yeah, sorry what’s the transcription?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Oh well it’s basically "Om paramar to the mainamar". Which is "we dedicate our union to a greater source".
Andrew Denton: Because two months apart do you reckon you can...
Deborra-Lee Furness: Too much.
Andrew Denton: You can, can you not handle that?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Oh look, we, we’re tough we can handle it, but I don’t choose to, this is the way we live our life. He, he you know loves making films and he doesn’t want to go off and make films if it means he’s not with with Oscar and I. We, it’s it’s a choice. Some people can do that. We don’t choose to do it, we’re not happy when we’re apart.
Andrew Denton: You mentioned before that Hugh’s been a bit greedy on the work front and his professional star has somewhat eclipsed yours in the last couple of years, how have you dealt with that?
Deborra-Lee Furness: It’s so weird cause people sort of say that and I say because we’re living our life it, it’s the perception that is out there. Where as far as we’re concerned we’re having a damned good time, we’re travelling the world, he’s working, I’m playing with Oscar, I’m, I, I just, you know to me acting is an activity. And you think about it a career is a luxury, I mean through our work we get to travel. I remember I was in Morocco and we’re you know driving along and I see this woman on the side of the road with meat piled up on her back, this is you know, and they’re down and you know washing their clothes and that thing, and I just sat there and I thought the arrogance that I should be worried about “oh my career”, you know it’s a complete luxury. These, these people are just surviving. So it’s a, it’s a gift to be able to do something that you love to do.
Andrew Denton: How do people around you respond to fame?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Oh it’s weird, we call it joy and happiness. It’s like because you know someone will go in a restaurant and you know and they’ll be ahead of you and they’ll say you have to wait. No, no wait in line we’ve got an hour wait or whatever. And then like we’ll be next minute it’s Hugh and it’s like all of a sudden, oh hello step this way, right over here, whatever, so it’s, it affords you, you know because people want to be. I’m still trying to understand it. It affords you special treatment which I don’t sort of, I’m uncomfortable with sometimes because it shouldn’t be. It’s like someone said the other day did they know who you were? It’s like it doesn’t matter, they should, they should’ve still done that if I was Joe Blow or whatever.
Andrew Denton: Do you ever decline the table?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Never. Ha ha. See this is it, we’re learning, we’re learning, it’s all new to us too.
Andrew Denton: You’re in a really good position, you’re your life is in great shape, how do you make sure that you keep taking risks, that you keep growing?
Deborra-Lee Furness: By coming on your show. Ha ha.
Andrew Denton: This ain’t a risk, this is a doddle. A walk in the park.
Deborra-Lee Furness: No, really when they asked me I was terrified.
Andrew Denton: Why?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Because it scares me so. I’m sitting here sort of telling my inner most secrets to a whole lot of people that I haven’t met.
Andrew Denton: We haven’t even got to the inner most secret yet.
Deborra-Lee Furness: I know but I didn’t know what you, I’ve seen your show. I didn’t know where you were going to go. So I just continue, yeah and like when I directed my film that was a huge risk, it terrified me. It was something I always wanted to do and I didn’t want to not do it because of fear, that would really, I would have disappointed myself. So I, I just went about, I just sort of decided and just one day right I’m going to do this. And when I really decided everything fell into place, the money and to make it and the actors and everything fell into place. And that was a great achievement for me personally.
Andrew Denton: We have a clip, here this is the film, it’s called 'Standing Room Only', it debuted at the Melbourne Festival last year and then the U.S. early this year. It’s a 12 minute film directed for the first time by Deborra-Lee Furness, let’s take a look. (Show Clip)
Andrew Denton: Now, I read where you got the idea for this when you and Hugh were queuing up for tickets to something. Now before we go into that, come on you don’t queue up for tickets to anything. Come on.
Deborra-Lee Furness: This is before we were rich and famous.
Andrew Denton: Oh really, so what gave you the concept?
Deborra-Lee Furness: We were in New York and Al Pacino was doing a one man show and we wanted to go and see it, so three mornings in a row we’d get up earlier and earlier and earlier to get there to get in line to get tickets. And we we did it and the third day we got in line and we were the first eight people there in line so we were going to get tickets, and we met these amazing group of people. This, we were just this incongruous group of people, a plumber from Jersey, and us from Australia, a woman from Spain, and we had this bonding experience because we had to sit there for hours and wait for them. And then by the time, and by the time the show came that night, we’d been up early three days in a row mind you, here we are, we’re finally there, seeing Al Pacino, he’s right there in front of me giving a monologue, I’m asleep, I'm like I, I like I’d been up early every morning it was so ironic. But it just made me think it was such, I said to Hugh at the time, I said this would be a short film, such a metaphor, we’re so result orientated, that you know that was all about seeing the show, like getting the tickets and doing that, and the actual journey getting there was far, infinitely more interesting, meeting these amazing people that recently I’m thrilled to say, this, the guy that we met, this was seven years ago, came to see 'The Boy from Oz' the other night and brought in a snapshot of us all standing there in line waiting for the tickets.
Andrew Denton: Is that right?
Deborra-Lee Furness: And it was so lovely, so nice to have that random thing, but I just thought it was a lovely metaphor for life and so I wanted to make it a short film.
Andrew Denton: One of the driving lines behind your movie 'Standing Room Only' is I love this line which is "between the wish and the thing life lies waiting." What does that mean for you?
Deborra-Lee Furness: Well you know we, we’re always result, we want this we want that, and we pursue that so doggedly we think that’s what we want and then you know, then you go after that but then life lies waiting, the journey the adventure that happens in-between pursuing that is when you wake up and go wow, this is what it’s all about. You know we think that it’s that, what we thought we wanted. I mean I’m constantly changing what I want. You know I’m still deciding what I’m going to be when I grow up. You know it’s like it changes every week.
Andrew Denton: And if you could indulge yourself what would you wish for?
Deborra-Lee Furness: What would I wish for? That there would be more people, would be more enlightened, that we would be awake. And by awake I mean that we would be able to be still enough to, to see each other and not to be clouded by all the stuff that’s out there all this la, la,la. Cause I think that’s when truth comes in and that we respect each other and there’s love and all that mushy stuff.
Andrew Denton: Deborra-Lee Furness you are still a lion of a woman.
Deborra-Lee Furness: Thank you Andrew Denton.
Applause
'God decided before he was born that I am his mother'
